[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the our Voices Oral Histories podcast, coordinated by the Common Room and presented by Dr. Andy Clark, research associate with the Newcastle Oral History Collective.
In this episode, we talk to John McCabe about his experience working in the mining industry in the northeast. The episode starts by asking how he became involved in the mining industry, including his family's migration from Ireland to the northeast.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I've been involved in mining since I was a younger man and my family history is in the coal mines and the mining industry of the northeast.
Originally, my great great grandfather who was irish, and my great grandfather who were irish, came to England from Coven County Covenant, Ireland in the late 1880s to Sigm harbor and worked for the local magnet who owned all the mines. That was Lord London Derry and obviously from Sigm harbor.
My great grandfather was one of 22 sons and was sort of spread out all over the northeast. Caulfield in 1900, my grandfather was born in heaven, Collary, which is where I reside now. I've lived in heaven most of my life.
In 1900 my grandfather was born. He eventually started to work in heaven coronary, where his father worked. My great grandfather. So I've got a history in the minds and the father was an electrical engineer.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: You won't believe me.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: My story mainly at that particular time.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: I had a big brother who knew.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Friction winder was always going to be an engineer in capital Kingdom.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: It was a given. I mean, I was brought up when I went to school, the boys went to work at the lowest of the lowest Armstrong or they went down the.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Pit, all the girls.
What do you remember your first feelings?
[00:02:18] Speaker C: The way it was so I was always going to get married and have babies.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Colloquially I think I was about and then you came back to west advice spent some older fella who was supposed.
[00:02:35] Speaker C: To gentlemen sitting behind the desk where.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: We went from there looked at me at the time, education background, sent me.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: To college, looked me up and down.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: I wasn't really concerned so I wouldn't worry because somebody tickets and then took some old tickets.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: So that was my career or whatever it was. So I came out, somebody will marry me, so I just get married. But in the background my brother was an apprenticeship at his Armstrong and being.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: A boy he was lazy. So he used to pay me a.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: Pound a week to do his homework.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: Sort of like self taught anything by.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: The time I was 15 because I wanted my pound a week just quite.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Important roles in a way.
[00:03:27] Speaker C: So that's how I learned engineering. But it still didn't occur to me.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Perform just at that time girl.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: So I was going to get married.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: And have never forget yourself remember man.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: I think where it started you can.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Be I got a job like a friend of mine Paul young.
[00:03:49] Speaker C: But I.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Was actually finished up chair of engineering.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: And I started asking the lads to.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Show me from heaven probably one of the most several languages fluently but always came to the level somebody never superimposed.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Did all the training joined the TA and trained as I think we can.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Forget some things especially when you background.
[00:04:14] Speaker C: I was always messing around I understood.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Having a two one or a first.
[00:04:19] Speaker C: So I started heavy goods in the.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Streets about other things in charge of a garage. Absolutely. So what did you do after from there involved in the media.
[00:04:32] Speaker C: Which no.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Longer exists very, very strong corridor from.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: There Jimmy Telford went Blythe power station.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Legend history he was in charge of the salvage.
[00:04:45] Speaker C: But worked my way just.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: In a million and a half tons.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Commercial operations which involved he was responsible.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: For sites salvaging, assessing pipelines, reinstalling together the reinstalling machinery just anything arduous or difficult after that few years then he went to in a sale then I went but he told me that another.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: Big company to design umbilical and the.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Manager let me go and I worked for Jimmy Telfer on the south pipeline.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Is all about for a few years control valves on the and then of.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Course we had the main australian and.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: Then from there management office I was.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Still at college at the same as.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Well so I've had a bit of a jump around but I am 55.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Came back from.
[00:05:38] Speaker C: Variety but what you find is hydraulic systems, mechanical systems. Well, eighty s the same terminology repeats.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: Through a pipe, ribs and ankles whether you're doing it in the pipeline inspection.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Or whether you're doing it in the.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Contract and there was a job system.
[00:05:57] Speaker C: On a car or whatever fluid through.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: A pipe you can transfer. Never had a different job role.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: Trade I need to know a little bit about everything.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Two and two and a half years expertise and it was a very responsible job he did.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Where you had to get materials at the right price and have them deliver on site at all fears. Do you remember how you was quite an exhausting job and quite the career's advisor. Quite a difficult job to manage because you're dealing with well.
[00:06:42] Speaker C: Everybody else various.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Engineers did you were going to be.
[00:06:50] Speaker C: A secretary or you were going to be a nurse. I did that if you were really clever you might be a nurse.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: The manager at the tank was a fellow called Tom Watson.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Never in a million legend suggested that.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: I would be tremendous guy still alive.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: And it was just wanted to crash around on motorbikes and I wanted to unfortunately.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: But it was purely this new roof bolt.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: But it was purely to the level that I did in the truck. I couldn't possibly have achieved that if.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: I hadn't became a cop.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Engines to bits and put them back together.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Engineer in that field, private life came back root wall engineer at Westo as we call them. There's other posh names for them, but that's what we call them. Roofwall engineer that she mentioned earlier.
[00:07:47] Speaker C: I was just interested.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: Of course 1991 was the that were.
[00:07:52] Speaker C: There at the time.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Recognized decision by the conservative government to.
[00:07:56] Speaker C: Close a number of long thin fingers so I could help them get the bit.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: So I ended up going across neighbor and corrie which had a greater future and was not hit list, which was.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: I was just interested.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: I kept asking first of all as a safety officer.
[00:08:12] Speaker C: Well yeah, we'll put you on a course.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: And I finished my career there.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: I would just read the manual.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: September the Corey actually closed and started.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Letting me do the quotations for customers who have.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Obviously it could be anything from maintain a number of other things and obviously the clothes.
So I stayed on.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: It could be my truck over in.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: The wind and I had made provisions for myself.
I didn't want to work away so.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: It could be anything in between.
I just remember one significant thing.
The local bus company became involved, had about 23 aspect of their life. Eleven series buses and I remember had.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Input shafts on them about 2000 she's ten melt.
[00:09:07] Speaker C: And we were like if we go back and the gearboxes were what you.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Talked about when you were. We discovered it was in the salvager installation then you said that then can.
[00:09:17] Speaker C: Eleven got to a certain temperature.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: What's your memories of.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: There was an override button that the driver could press which was supposed to give him enough time to get back to the garage, take the bus off the road.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: But the drivers would afraid anyway and.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: We had to change.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: I'm a best friend, still my best friend. We call him Mara.
[00:09:43] Speaker C: We weren't going to replace him with another happened again. So we did a voice retrofit. I said on all of them and.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: It, you know, I'm getting married. I should still go ahead where five.
[00:09:56] Speaker C: Or six weeks prove myself as a project leader.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: I got married on the 9th June 1984, thinking I got married common sense.
[00:10:08] Speaker C: And prepared to take a few risks.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: My wife was working in a massive electron company in heaven called Rareall.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: So just ended up getting employed somewhere like 16,000 people never ever earned as.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Much as massive muscle. Electrical engineering didn't worldwide female world famous for me.
She was working in the offices.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: I think girls now get a lot.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: More coming back in the MoD than we did following year.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: Back in the day, just clothes and didn't.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: On Christmas Eve 1984, I just sort of proved myself. Mother in law's door got on.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: Think about it.
I'm interested in the french unionist.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Thank you very much.
And I was really, really grateful for receiving this chicken.
[00:11:14] Speaker C: It was difficult because I was managing the garage. I was sort of like having to chicken for you. Something you start off with asking politely.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: He says it's from the Japanese.
And his chicken weighed four pound.
And I got the chicken out.
Most of them chicken was four pound 4oz. It was just all showing.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: And as long as I was prepared to eat.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: They were now inspecting perform the roles in the mind.
[00:11:59] Speaker C: Okay with me.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? You can keep your chicken.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Men would see you as a threat. And you get more pointed out to you that you were a woman. I mean, I have had bus drivers and lorry drivers come into and say.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: Quite horrendous, because I didn't have anything to give to me. If I didn't have anything at all.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: Talk to me.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: My family actually saw me through the strike, paid for me.
Things turned out quite well.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Now you are automatically tread as an.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: E. I remember there was a difference.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: We have moved on.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Take it in. As a female engineer, I didn't shake any part going on buses.
[00:12:47] Speaker C: And funny enough, I go to places.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Where there was potential trouble. Although I did support before shoes and a pencil skirt.
During the time of the strike, what was your belief of what you were finding? What was your reason for being?
[00:13:07] Speaker C: People just make remarks at you what.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: You were lodge meeting west.
I'm not afraid to speak and I spoke out against the woman, because he.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: Was using that for a different philosophy and she walked.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: I think he utilized.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: These are role models who enabled women to wear.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Well, I'm a leaver body member.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Had a big.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Mines always close. You and I can open a brand new mine and come get, you might agree, or whatever geological reasons or whatever.
[00:13:54] Speaker C: People hate it.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: The business takes a downturn, the pandemic, whatever, like it all by its nature. As soon as you open a coal.
[00:14:02] Speaker C: Mine, some of the coal mines actually nearly clothing fantastic red, all of them.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: But there was a future for the coal mine. And this is where I don't think seeing any of them, but this is where Mrs. Thatcher had it wrong, because she had the antithesis. I think I'm looking view and opinion of Scarlet where she had two roberts.
[00:14:25] Speaker C: Really extreme and in between like extraordinary.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: Women was the main media being used by one side and abused by the other.
It's not problem until we resolved the problem.
All that needed was communication and better understanding of where the side was coming from. Reach a compromise. You've got to reach compromises in life. If you don't reach compromises you have conflict.
[00:14:53] Speaker C: The men did this.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: That's the way that it was really really difficult for girl was going to be an engineer and some of the people who went back to work what's wrong with her? Some of them were greedy, some of them were.
[00:15:07] Speaker C: I can remember taking we had a.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Guy and nobody ever ever spoke about I can remember taking a guy detrimental.
[00:15:17] Speaker C: And a man in the garage saying.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: His iq was quite low and he crossed the picket line and nobody abused him.
He just went back because his mom told him to go back. This guy was people like that mom.
[00:15:30] Speaker C: Said I'm talking to.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: Some people families.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: I've had a lot of things said.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: To me some of the years hardship for young people that were unable for the young children as well. An awful time, but it's history now.
[00:15:48] Speaker C: I'm not going to get into people that I have no respect.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: What was heavenly very little because by that time majority of the the people in heaven area were involved in the coal mining industry predominantly involved in the.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Man woman thing.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: The shipyards with palmers and lesbians classes sexist or whatever made to me in and there was a lot of work heaven was built in an industry but there was a number of smaller firms like Baker curtains which made Baker like you just employed several hundred people and dars as engineer in some respects.
[00:16:34] Speaker C: But I think what's changed is that back in my day if I said.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: To my parents I want to be.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: An engineer I would have been lucky.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Although there was a number of us.
[00:16:41] Speaker C: I think today if a girl says I want to be an in an.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Average you may get one nine out of maybe 100 people.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: That's the difference.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: I think we've really concerned majority of people.
Like when you went back after it was finished did you see the pictures in Billy Elliot and stuff the bands playing as they go back? Was that what it was like for you? Well, we actually much behind the.
[00:17:06] Speaker C: I think a lot of think it's a dirty job and they don't want to get their hands dirty. I think a lot of the union.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Guys think it's max. We are not going back until we get the sack miners back. Ian Greer, my best friend was a sack.
[00:17:19] Speaker C: So I have to put them right on those two things.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: So we then promptly marched out of the culinary guard and went to the welfare club.
[00:17:27] Speaker C: Persuaded by the media, the union gave.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Her a few beers and still football player the first working. We didn't go back on the first.
[00:17:36] Speaker C: Ambassadors to talk to teenagers.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: And for years he talked about divorces. Families divided by the time to get the teenage. How long did that Ripley, after whatever.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: You need to go in and talk to quickly younger children.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Pittman and minus have got a very, very strong.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: I had a group of students here from Nottingham University recently, all females, all.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Study other industries and sometimes sat them in a room like the leafy, suburbish engineers, and said, right, very, very resilient. Let's go through that clever way. What's stopping you from design overcoming problems?
[00:18:20] Speaker C: What came out of that?
[00:18:21] Speaker B: They have this kind of mentality, very strong mentality.
The roof fell down.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: You have to have an agency mechanical engineering.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: And that was the same with very quickly.
[00:18:32] Speaker C: But I'll apply for it anyway.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Became orientated level of expectation.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: And a sense of entitlement. I am entitled I'll apply for it.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: To bring. Some haven't got that skill ports in bigger chalks.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: And I think it's because of.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: And supply lines were very, very, I think tardy unconsciously.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: I think with kick them out the big y wheels.
I think with girls.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: So I went out right there. They were all having the world. Bits of stuff.
Come on, check this stuff.
Negotiate underneath. Never going to very low change crossing.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: Boys and girls are in the main.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Looking back. If those vehicles, which were still moving at 2 mph consistent would actually get underneath basically obstructions as an engine holding fast and wrecking the place.
And we use the light system, the lights, to communicate. Light travels faster and sound.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: Its role model actually stumbled, but the other fell underneath. Tram is when they go.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: She was loaded with being an engineer.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: They'll stand there, obviously.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Horsepower motor riding that way and me trying to fight it against.
And what it actually did was what we need to do. People have told me this because I didn't realize I was near is it's.
[00:20:39] Speaker C: Actually not got as fast in the knee software. Now that does it for turn me around.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: You just input broke.
And it's my back needs.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: To be an engineer that's going to invent l one. L two bscs was across here. It's what they call a publish synthesis, where the front and the back. And you can be taught snap anything normally.
Just snap a little bit. Which is I think we need a very painful thing. But in my case, what had happened is it broke at the front, broke at the back, and ended up going. And that's because of the nature of the 150 hp motor.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Example.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Luckily for me, hospital about two minutes away from the pit, because if I.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: Was to go into and say, right, this is a power.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: The normal consultant orthopedic surgeon, Mrs. Karat, was out in India.
Unfortunately for me, there was a guy from Birmingham called Mr. Khan. Shape hair, English, like a Cambridge.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: To do that to the principles of engineering.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: I think that man saved my life. He actually saved my life.
I spent quite a number of months in hospital and recovery.
Fortunately, I've got two sisters who are nursing sister, so I came home as well after her dormant. I didn't make a full recovery, but I made a recovery.
I didn't want to go back on the ground straight away, and I took the job.
You're already engineering, although that involved going.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: On the ground, hasn't got the time involved.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Physical work, which we would have had been used to. So to me is a minor.
Obviously, you've got to do your fierce.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: Training, but if you like.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Hairdresser Herrington colleague to do fierce training.
[00:22:49] Speaker C: But the basic fact that was one.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Thing about the NC four major application last year and improving you as a person.
Courses were always available at different levels for everybody. Everybody was encompassed industry in the region, very good. Northeast, like Newcastle, you could even start off in very, very humble service. Some of the site changes and by training and by education in the northeast.
[00:23:17] Speaker C: When I was a child, and of.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Course was all shipyards, working with people.
[00:23:21] Speaker C: In this place, we employed 12,000 people thrown upon.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: I learned so much. Twelve people in the coal main industry.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: I mean, that is just enormous.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: I think so clever in very many ways. So, from an engineering point of view, powerhouse how to get things done.
[00:23:42] Speaker C: We don't make anything anymore, but correctly, in a nutshell, there's bits and making.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Money at the same time. Gas industry, tremendous. I think one of the things we used to do, I don't know if you've obviously been one of the jobs, which was my responsibility for a number of years, worked with Stuart Porthouse.
Stuart was the unit mechanical engineer. Strikes me and him and I worked out social impact, how to get massive machinery, which was getting bigger and bigger as the coolings became more drugger. Pubs have gone actually down, the main.
[00:24:22] Speaker C: Social clubs have gone very, very different.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: Than the North Sea.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: We all sit in our little breeze.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Done safely, but in the correct manner. We needed to optimize the time for resources as well came up with a fantastic she talked to steward about even talking about it all dear but the system were hard for lifting based on your coal shearer machine, 40 foot long dual m range shearer could totally hold down the main transport it into I.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: Don'T think we make anything anymore. But I think was that. I think we health and safety down. The main.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Events by that time was that becoming less and less became less and less. So unfortunately the nature of mining we just don't seem to there's always a risk.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: All the time because I run.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: The some minor increases as we would call them. And obviously the reporting of those chains with the health and safety sent some.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: British engine kind of thing to go.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: And the minor corridors are chains as well. But the outskirts are just some photography not at every corridor but heard of per annum and some major british engineering. That's one of the things I was proud of.
I think that's one of the reasons I was sent there shelves quickly. It can happen, but I just don't think to add an appreciation of that side of factories to me.
I still am as well a bit of a disciplinarian.
Hopefully in a nice manner, not in a stringent manner.
We are mouth cullary had an absolutely appalling safety record. Three guys had been killed in a locomotive accident. I don't know if you know about that accident and it was not long before I went to that culry.
One guy suffered. He's a quadriplegic to this day and it was basically really appalling management. It started at the manager and worked its way down instead. Know it didn't work that way.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Appalling our voices is funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund in association with the common room and Dr. Andy Clark. To find out more about the work of the common room, please visit www.thecommonroom.org uk or email
[email protected].
