[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the our Voices Oral Histories podcast, coordinated by the common room and presented by Dr. Andy Clark, research associate with the Newcastle Oral History Collective. In this episode, we talk to David Trilevin, a mechanical engineer. We ask him about his apprenticeship and how he got his start with british engines.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Well, when I left school, I had an interest in engineering. Actually asked school before that, I always did engineering based subjects, my gcses and I decided that 6th form and a levels weren't for me. I didn't fancy going to college and I got an apprenticeship with an engineering firm called British Engines, who offer a great apprenticeship scheme in the northeast. And I've eventually worked my way through, completed my apprenticeship, and now I'm a fully qualified mechanical engineer. So that's how I've currently part of this plan.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: You said that at school you were kind of interested in engineering subjects. Talk to us a little bit about that. What was it that interested you when you were younger?
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Well, I've always had a knack for Lego.
Yeah, I've always liked to build stuff with my Lego and I've enjoyed McCannell and then I took an interest in that. So at school, when I decided my options for my gcses, I chose product design. And also BTeC engineering was on the offer, which wasn't as I thought was going to be.
It wasn't as practical based, it was more computer based and typing stuff up, but certainly a lot of the theoretical side of it there. But in product design, and I always learned the practical stuff, making your own products was really what I enjoyed there, all the designs and even from the start, right, to just coming up with ideas to the finished product and then evaluating it, thinking how you could do better next time. I really enjoyed the whole process.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Was there much background in engineering in your family? You said in the house you were playing Lego and stuff. Was there any kind of tradition of that amongst your parents or grandparents?
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Well, my grandparents, one of them was a car mechanic. So he's got an automotive engineering background. My background is not automotive engineer, it's more like machining based. So like producing components to high tight tolerance parts.
Other than that, I wouldn't say apart from a brother who's kind of. He's a plumbing and heating engineer, so he's got more of a household trade rather than. My workplace is normally inside a factory or a shop floor.
Not that. So I would say, yes, it is an engineering based family, partly. But my type of engineering is a lot different to anything else we've had in the family previously.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: And when you were looking to do that engineering path when you're in school. When was that? What year were you kind of looking at your gcses?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Well, previously it was in year ten and I think our year group was the first year group where they had moved it back. So now you did it in year nine, so you start in year nine. So we're looking at halfway through year eight was when they were asking us to decide on our options for gcses. So it was quite young, really. I think. I think it's a bit too early, maybe because he hadn't quite had the experience of all the subjects within the school you'd only been in, because obviously in secondary school you only start from year seven, so it's only a year and a half. You're talking of getting experience of all the subjects before deciding really what you want to do.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: What was it like in school when you said no, you wanted to go down that kind of apprenticeship vocational education route rather than higher education? What was the kind of support like for you in making that kind of decision?
[00:03:49] Speaker B: I would say the support wasn't exceptional in the fact that you had to reach out for it rather than. I'm not saying it should be handed to you on a plate, but there should be more ready support available. You really got to go dig in, or at least I did anyway, to find the careers advisor. There was a careers advisor on hand in the school, but I always felt that it was a bit lacklust and the fact that they kind of wanted you to stay on at school and at least do your a levels and then make a decision, which for a lot of people it might be a good idea. And I'm not saying it's not, but for me it wasn't quite there and I don't think that the path that I wanted to take, there was enough support for it from anybody within the school.
[00:04:38] Speaker C: Yeah, you talked about kind of having to go and dig around yourself. What kind of things were it that you had to go looking for?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Well, it ranged from a lot of things. I mean, like the local council provided apprenticeship open evens. I even went to some college open evens to see if that was right. For me, it ended up not being right.
I also went to. There was an organization called connections, but I'm not sure if they're still a thing anymore. They used to have an office locally in the local town, but they don't anymore. I don't know if they've moved or something, but they were the local careers advice people and you had to physically go to the office outside of school time to organize an appointment with somebody. And that's how I kind of got everything explained to me, like my options. And eventually I just decided, I'll apply for a few apprenticeships and eventually ended up getting, securing all the British Indians, which is great.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: What was it like applying for apprenticeships when you were 16? What do you remember of that process? Because it's a big jump from school to kind of formally applying for apprenticeships, for work. What do you remember of doing that?
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, obviously at the time I hadn't had any experience really, with applying for jobs in that, other than I did have a paper around when I was in school still, so I didn't really have to apply for that job, though, obviously, just the case of the Internet, we still got websites and you just go on careers pages. A lot of companies do advertise their apprenticeships quite well. I'm not sure whether that's because they can't get the people that they want or something like that. But, yeah, the apprentice vacancies that I saw were quite attractive, especially being at 16, that some of the offerings that were offering were really good. So I thought, well, why not apply? And then all the applications tended to be online and then you had to go to assessment centers. Some of them I didn't do so well in the assessment centers, some of them I did and get the next stage, obviously, eventually to take you through all these tests and then eventually, if you get an interview and it just happened to be that with british engines, all of the application process just went really smoothly for me and I think that's why they eventually offered me the job.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: How many different schemes did you apply for?
[00:07:01] Speaker B: I must have said at least six or seven, I think six or seven, and I think I got accepted at the two, but eventually I ended up choosing british engines because they've got a good local reputation here in the northeast for being a good mean.
[00:07:16] Speaker C: You talked about what the businesses were offering. What were you looking for for an apprenticeship? Was it dependent on the trade that you would learn or was it more focused on, like you said, a reputation? What were the things that you kind of thought about when applying to different schemes?
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Well, I was looking for something more obviously along the lines of engineering to start with, because there's lots of different apprenticeships. You can get business admin apprenticeships and there's a variety of other trades you can offer. But I was looking for something engineering based. Doesn't have to be anything in particular. I could have went automotive or anything like that. But I was looking for something which would be a good career to get into, and I thought I had a long term future in it. So eventually I thought british engines probably got a long term future because they've been around for. They've been established for nearly 100 years now. I think it's 100 years next year. The company's been established.
And also, as I say, they're not the only company that do that sort of engineering. So there's plenty of options and career progression you could get into with different businesses.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Absolutely. And you mentioned the assessment center. Some you did well, some you did less well. What do you remember of the kind of things you were asked to do at assessments?
[00:08:35] Speaker B: Well, we'll start with the bad ones.
One of them, I think it was, got. Obviously, I passed the initial application stage, filled in the application form. They said, we'll invite you to an assessment center. I got there, got in, and it was basic. I think it was taking something apart and putting something back together. So I thought, great, this is my element. Unfortunately, it was to do with electronics, and electronics is something I've never really had any experience with. I didn't do electronics, really, at school at all, apart from the basic functions of a circuit that you do in science, but nothing technologically based. And it just was so complex for something that I'd never really had any experience with. So I think I ended up taking it back apart. And by the time the time ran out, because there was a time limit on how long it takes you to disassemble it and reassemble it, I just made a massive mess of that. And I don't think that application went any further.
The good ones, as I say, british engines, I think it was maths and English I had to do with them. And then the actual practical engineering sort of test didn't come till later on. And I flew through the engineering and not the engineering, the maths and the english side of things. The English was just that kind of GCSE standard, but the maths was a bit more advanced. And I think there was another one I had that, again, it was just taking something apart, but putting it back together, but that was a mechanical sort of thing. So with Meccano, and I had more experience with that, essentially. I just don't think I'd done well with that first one, because it was electronic. And the circuits, just at the time, I didn't know anything about them. So, again, experience is really beneficial, which, of course, an apprenticeship gives you, which is another reason why you get out that loophole of can't get a job without experience and can't get experience without.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: A job, especially dealing with electrics for the first time in an application situation with a timer on. I mean, that must have been. Must have been pretty hard going.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: It was, I think when I looked at it at the start and I thought, I could probably do this, but with it being electrical, I'm not going to be able to remember. They didn't give you anything to write anything down. It all had to be done by memory.
I felt like I had to be an expert before I even started. So I felt that that one definitely wasn't going to go well already. So obviously they didn't progress me through the next stage, but you live and learn. So I did my research into a bit of electronics on that. And it's actually, at the time, somebody actually, I should have done some research beforehand because somebody actually put online who's been in one of the assessment centers and showed you the diagram that you knew. So we've got a bit of form of knowledge before we actually went in there and did it.
[00:11:27] Speaker C: So when you did the maths and english side for the british engines, and then what was the engineering kind of practical exam for them, what was that like?
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Well, it was obviously my job to do with CNC machining.
It was more to do with the inspection side of things like bits of precision measuring equipment, like a micrometer and vernia just asking you how you would use them. Luckily, at school in product design, we had had a bit of experience using basic bits of measuring equipment like that.
They weren't expecting, obviously, to be a master at CNC machining or anything. We didn't have a CNC machine at my secondary school, so I'd never touched one of those until I actually started the job.
So I think that sort of test before in the application process was more suited to a basic level of knowledge, the one I was referring to before about the electronics. And I felt like that was, although you could apply from when you were age 16 for the apprenticeship, I think that was probably aimed at people who had a bit more experience, even in just academic terms, like to do with electronics, and that they might have had a better chance at obviously succeeding in that.
[00:12:52] Speaker C: And then when you went through that, you then went to an interview.
What do you remember of the interview for British Engines?
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah, well, actually it was a two stage interview process for british engines. Firstly, the first one was held by the engineering training center, which is on Scottsdale Road, or it was at the time. Anyway, I think they're moving it now because it's been bought out by TDR, obviously. It used to be owned by Rolls Royce when they own part. Michelle Barons, which is on the same, was in, I think the meeting there was with the manager and somebody in human resources from the engineering training center there, and they just.
I can't really remember this one very well. It was obviously just standard interview, I think, about asking questions about your engineering experience more than your suitability for the job, because obviously, with them being a training center, it's not to do with work, it's to do with training for the workplace.
And then they passed off on that and they accepted that. So then I'm assuming british engines must have applied me to a company, because they've got several different companies within the group, because british engines is a group of companies.
And at the time, I was asked to go to an interview at Bell Valves, which is initially like the first site of british engines, which is at the bottom of, next to Spiller's wharf on the keyside, where the new wire wheel is going to be going very soon, right next to there.
And that interview was just a department manager from the company there and also the HR manager for the apprenticeship scheme for the British Engines group.
And again, it wasn't such competency based interview. That was, again, just an interview saying if you'd be suitable for a job, just in general. And I try to be as honest as possible. And I think that really what threw them for me, because I think the HR person in the interview was really happy with how I conducted myself and how honest I'd been. So I felt like it just went well. Just out of all the other interviews I'd done, I felt like that one was really good.
And eventually, I think it was a couple of weeks after that, they offered me a position in the job, give me a contract with the post and everything. So signed all the paperwork, made a start at the engineering training center for three months, did my basic training there before going to the factory and then going to college for one day a week. And then a few years later, here we are.
[00:15:40] Speaker C: How did it feel when you got the phone call saying you'd been accepted?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: I was absolutely elated, because I think it was about May or June when I got accepted. So it was getting on a bit in the academic year and obviously I'd already said that I wasn't going to six form, so it would have been a bit of a carry on to backtrack and then have to go through the whole process of seeing if there were any places on any of the course I want to do or if there was any other companies that would accept me for an apprenticeship at the time.
And I think it's a legal requirement now for people between 16 and 18 still to be in some form of learning based environment, even though it's just part time. So I wasn't running out of options, but it was getting close and you're thinking it's either a win or lose situation here. So I was pretty happy and they gave me a start date, but I wasn't too happy with the start date because that was the 27 June. It was actually the last day of my final GCSE exam, so unfortunately I had to ring them up and say, I can't come in the morning because I've still got an exam. So finished that exam off and then started work the next day. So never really had a summer holiday that year, and it's been work ever since.
[00:17:03] Speaker C: That's not a brutal introduction. You had all life on it, so you don't get summer holidays.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it certainly wasn't the same as everybody else who. I know it was a bit more grueling, but it was a lovely summer as well. It was a lovely summer.
I remember cycling to work during the summer. It was excellent weather, but apart from that, being stuck inside a factory on a scolding, hot day is not the best thing, but it's life.
[00:17:29] Speaker C: So when you signed on to your apprenticeship, were you signed on to a specific trade that you would be apprenticed in, or is it more of a general program of engineering apprenticeship?
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Well, I think british engines have got either fitting machining or like a maintenance, as in a mechanical maintenance person or a maintenance electrical person, and I didn't get to choose between those.
Well, most of them do become machinists, and I am a machinist because that's what largely of the workforce in british engine is made up of. I think that particular. In that case, at Bellevue, they were only taking machinists on. Yes. So after the three months, the next step was going to the workplace four days a week and then to college for one day a week. That would be on, I think, was on a Tuesday of the first year.
So that college day was used to do the BTEC level three qualification, which is in mechanical engineering, I think, or manufacturing engineering, I think, was the title. Yeah, manufacturing engineering.
So that was more academic based, but there was a bit of practical elements in there in certain lessons and at the workplace, you'd be just moving around the different areas of the shop floor, learning about different machining. I think I started in grinding for the first three months, and then I moved to large horizontal boras. Then I went into the medium section for a bit to do more turning and then eventually moved back to horizontal boras. And I was on there for, I think, probably two or three years, and then I moved back to smaller machining. So I do three axes, milling machining now, and I've still got a variety of machines that I'm about that I know, which is always a benefit.
[00:19:25] Speaker C: What were the differences between being in the engineering school and then going to the shop floor? What do you remember are your kind of thoughts when you first got into the workplace and that was you going to be based in a factory rather than a trading center?
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that the training center was a bit more old fashioned, if you like, because they still had like, sort of what? Well, from what I've learned online and stuff like that, they've got more of a traditional sense of how a factory should run.
They had a beacon which sirens when you start, when you finish, when there's a shift change or a lunch break or anything like that in the factory, it was a lot more relaxed in the sense that you have more independence that you come in, because people who work there obviously are experienced in the role, I think, in the training scooters more to sort of guide you, to make sure you were doing the right things at the right time to gear you up so that when you come into the workplace, then you're actually able to do the job properly and be able to act independently and not have somebody constantly on your back all your time, making sure you're doing everything right.
The workplace was probably. Well, definitely was different in the sense that it was much more independence. And you kind of left your own devices to make the decisions. And then if that decision obviously involves you having to work with somebody else, then you work with them.
[00:20:55] Speaker C: What was the relationship like between you as an apprentice and the kind of time sales craftsman?
[00:21:03] Speaker B: To be honest, I think they were quite friendly, most of them. You did have the odball or somebody who was a bit of an old hand, but they're sometimes the best ones to learn from.
Some people don't.
I'm not saying all people do, but sometimes you get a culture where people are not really able to pass on the knowledge or not wanting to in case they think that it's going to harm them in some way. But a lot of people were quite open and really as long as you're willing to learn, they'll help you learn sort of thing.
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Go for a long stand or a ten. A paint was there.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that was definitely the sort of jokes like that we definitely had.
But on the large part, it was quite a laugh in the joke. It wasn't anything like some of the stories I've heard in the old days, where people get strung up on a crane for the lunch break and have to sit swaying from the top of the crane for a while. That's one of the ones I heard.
[00:22:11] Speaker C: Just tell us about what it was like day to day being an apprentice. What kind of jobs were you given? What was it on job training like over those few months when you were first in the factory?
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Well, obviously some of the jobs aren't the best ones in the world as an apprentice, but on the large part, I think the training side of things was you just kind of left to it with the person who you're on the machine with, who's obviously experienced and knows what they're doing, and they provide you with the information. That obviously depends on what worked on on that particular day. Sometimes, if there's not a lot of work on, then there'll be other jobs that won't be as nice, like cleaning and stuff. But on other days, when there's a busy day with work, it can actually be quite productive and quite beneficial to your learning. So there's a lot of setting and programming and operating at the machine. It's all to be learnt and you only got four years to do it. It sounds like a long time, but it honestly, it isn't. As I say, even though I've finished apprenticeship now, you're still learning all the time. I mean, recently I've been learning how to work a CMM machine, which is like a coordinate measurement machine, so it comes in with a probe and takes measurements to measure the sizes of all different features on metal components.
So that's obviously not to do with CNC machining, but again, it's expanding my flexibility within the business to enable us to have a good flow of the work through the food production section.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: I'll let you get going because I know you've got night shift to go and start later on, but just as.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: A kind of last.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: So we've covered why you got an apprenticeship, how you get apprenticeship, how you did your apprenticeship, what your future plans are. One of the aims of these interviews is to let school kids listen to them and think about their future career. If you were given advice to someone who is in the GCSE level, where you were when you decide the apprenticeship, if you were explaining to them why an apprenticeship and an engineering trade is a good career option, what do you think you would say to them?
[00:24:19] Speaker B: Well, some people will be money motivated, so I'll definitely say the earnings side of things is nice. It may not seem a lot of money initially, but it is in the scheme of things, when you're 16 and maybe you've got no bills or you've got very little bills in the scheme of things like that, it's great. Even if you're a bit older, it's still obviously short term pain, long term gain. You might have had a better paying job before, obviously, even working like supermarkets and that you're earning 910 pounds an hour these days. But obviously if you move from a supermarket job to like an apprentice wage, it's the short term pain. If you can afford it, I would definitely say do it because it's worth it in the long term, isn't it? With a better pay afterwards.
If you're not money motivated and you want the skill or you want a job that you'll enjoy, get some work experience. Because one thing they haven't mentioned in the interview actually is work experience. I was quite disappointed that I think it was the government have actually removed the weak work experience that you would do in year ten at school.
Yeah, they've removed that now, but you'd still do it in the 6th form years. I think it's year twelve you do it in, but in year ten they don't do it anymore because they didn't see any benefit to it. But I would certainly say if you wanted to try and organize some work experience outside of that, like a week in the summer holidays somewhere, just do a placement there or even try and contact your school. Some schools are quite good at and they've got good connections with companies who'll do placements in work.
I think british engines have got a good connection with goss or something.
Get some advice, get some proper advice.
I don't know if your schools have got careers, people in them, or if they're hiding away somewhere and you have to go and seek them out. Make sure you seek them out, have a look, ask them questions, ask them what's best for you, but again, at the end of the day is your decision, isn't it? So try and get the advice. That's what my top thing to do is.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Our voices is funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund in association with the common room and Dr. Andy Clark to find out more about the work of the common room, please visit at www.thecommonroom.org uk or email
[email protected] uk.
